Interview with Groove Magazine about Black Out Korea

1) What is your reaction the first time you came across BOK?

In fact, the first reaction to BOK was not mine.  It was stamped in my memories by one of my UK friends.  Over 1 month ago, he said to me, "They are crazy!  Why does Korean police let them free to do such idiot behaviours everywhere in Korea?"  And I still think they are crazy. 

2) Why is it wrong to post pictures of passed out people with foreigners POSING in front of them?

BOK photos remind me of Abu Ghraib photos.  The combination of 'passed out people' and 'posers with them' would not be called as an idiot behaviour or a moral hazard by itself.  It could be accidental or could have a reasonable motive as the owner of BOK is shouting "Improvement of Korean drinking culture!".  The conspicuous characteristics that made me feel awful are the posers' expressions in photos : happy smile, thumb up(or victory), ridiculing atmosphere.  Why are Abu Ghraib photos awful?  Naturally a man standing by the other person in trouble is expected to feel down.  He is expected to feel depressed, sympathy or angry.  But the soldiers in photos show happy smile and thumb up.  It's bizarre!  Passed out people on streets needed helps and at least they were exposed to danger.  They were not very happy as much as posers enjoyed them. 

3) Would you still have a problem with BOK if it was made by a Korean, with only Koreans in it? To what extent is this a foreigner/Korean issue?

Basically I think BOK was impossible if posers regarded passed out people as human beings or if posers regarded themselves as cultured people at least.  And it seems to me that this social phenomenon is about visitors / residents issue rather than foreigner/Korean issue.  As you know, Abu Ghraib soldiers were also visitors.  Chinese people are saying "Visit here and do the same things on our streets.  We will kill you all as soon as you take poses." now on their Internet(link).  Most of passed out people in BOK photos were Koreans and all photos were taken in Korea.  These two facts make me so sad as a Korean.  If you are US citizen, you can't agree but the BOK is original US style.  I and most of my friends(Korean, Chinese, Japanese, UK, Luxembourg, Denmark) think so.   

4) It seems to me after talking with some Koreans that the biggest problem with BOK is the people posing. If there were no people posing - just passed out people - would you feel as strongly?

If there were just passed out people in BOK photos without posers, I could express just one worry about violation of portrait rights.  At that time when a passed out people was taken as a picture, he was in a stigmatic moment of his life.  It is why BOK had not to expose the poor people's faces online.  Now Korean and Chinese newspapers in which BOK problem is described with photos, passed out people's faces are blurred.  It's not because they are Asian people.  It is just because they are regarded as victims.  Compare these photos in a same article : ①Posers(link01, link02) ②Passed out people      

5) Is what BOK presents racist? Or is it distasteful?

Their behaviours present the loss of humanity.  The judging of racist or distasteful manner could be up to the viewer's race or personal taste.  I think every viewer can find the loss of humanity in BOK photos if the viewer is conscious of humanity.   

6) Is it a matter of freedom of speech? 

That's the most interesting assertion made by the owner of BOK.  Once I told him, "'freedom of speech' is a good word. But BOK is a simple place to speech freely about Mission & Execution in collusion in the real world. There were real actions and your posts just showed what happened in the real world. You only have been focusing on how you could influence the Korean society without taking any responsibility following your operations. Peter Drucker said that power must always be balanced by responsibility, otherwise it becomes tyranny."  BOK seems to try to have a power to improve(?) Korean drinking culture under the cloak of 'freedom of speech' without considering of generating victims.  The passed out people taken as disgraceful pictures in their lives and the other Korean people got shocked by the photos are all victims. 

7) Is it fair to compare BOK to Abu Ghraib? At Abu Gharib, the subjects of the photos were prisons; they were being tortured; and they were in a war zone. The subjects of BOK are people that passed out on the street on their own accord. 

I'm a simple engineer but not a sociologist.  Anyway in my viewpoint, BOK could be worse than Abu Ghraib.  The passed out people were not prisoners of war.  There was no reason to torture them, of course.  They were just fully drunken on their own accord.  They were not enemies!  Why ridicule them?  Why touch them without consents?  Why show the joy of victory with smile or cheers?  I can't even guess what tempted them to do so, except for evil minds.  Where are similar photos of BOK, that include powerless residents, visitors ridiculing them and thumbing up?  Abu Ghraib!  Very special and creative(?) activity which is usually unimaginable for normal people.  

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These are FACTs :

1> The most praised reaction of Chinese people was, "Visit here and do the same things on our streets.  We will kill you all as soon as you take poses."

2> There was no Korean who criticized me(or my work) when I was blaming 'Low-quality English teachers' related to Black Out Korea's terrible behaviors.  Back then, I received a mention from a lady who opposed to my actions.  She said, "Why do you react to such lowbrow people?  Ignore them!"

Black Out Korea DOWN - 블랙아웃코리아 폐쇄

The evil BlackOutKorea site is open to invited readers only.  Actually it has been taken down today!  The number of invited readers is limited to 100.  최대 100명까지 독자로 초대 가능.

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Additional notes (Mar. 8th 19:00, 2011 GMT+9) : If you wonder the evil site is blocking approaches from specific countries.. don't worry! I and my friends are watching them from Korea, China, Japan, UK, Luxembourg, Denmark, Canada :D The friends are all natives of their countries.

The first post of BLACK OUT KOREA

After this post, the site owner successfully(?) gathered contributors sharing joyful pictures with the others.  But the joy was only for them.  Their photos included violences and humiliations to powerless people who were fully drunken and passed out on streets in Korea.  Maybe they treated these terrible behaviors as simple online events, but actually their crimes were executed in real world and the photos were just crime evidences safely(?) stored far from scenes.  As a Korean, their photos surely remind me of Abu Ghraib.  I couldn't see merely similar photos before.

I did hope to avenge their terror in Korea.  But fortunately (differently to the leader of terrorists) I could meet many beautiful minds stopping my evil minds.  Thank you, Darth Babaganoosh, Adeel, Schplook, kushibo.

Now several SOCIOLOGISTs have great interests in the moral hazard of Black Out Korea posters.  If someone needs a full data of their original activities for sociological studies then please contact me via my Korean blog.

We are Human Beings (click to view in full screen) :

[in Korean]

위에 첫 포스트를 시작으로, 블랙아웃코리아 개설자는 성공적으로(?) '즐거운 사진' 제공자들을 불러모았습니다.  그러나 그 즐거움은 오직 그들만을 위한 것이었죠.  사진들은 한국에서 만취하여 길에 쓰러진, 저항할 힘이 없는 사람들에 대한 폭력과 굴욕을 담고 있었습니다.  아마도 그들은 자신들의 행동을 단순히 온라인에서 벌이는 이벤트 쯤으로 치부했나봅니다.  하지만 실제론 그들의 범죄는 현실세계에서 이뤄졌으며 사진들은 단지 범죄현장에서 멀리 떨어져 안전하게(?) 보관된 범죄 증거물이었습니다.  한국인으로서 그들의 사진은 제게 명백히 '아부 그라이브' 교도소를 상기시킵니다.  저는 그 이전에 조금도 유사한 사진을 보지 못했어요. 

저는 정말이지 한국에서의 그들의 테러에 보복을 하고 싶었습니다.  그러나 다행히도 (테러리스트 두목의 경우와 달리) 저는 사악한 마음을 제지할 아름다운 심성들을 만날 수 있었습니다.  이분들에게 감사를 표합니다 : Darth Babaganoosh, Adeel, Schplook, kushibo.  국내에서 활동하는 영어선생님들입니다. 

Valuable Advice from Schplook

I agree with you that Blackout Korea is a terrible site. However, I don't consider the bad behaviour shown on the blog to be anywhere near the same level of evil as the acts of the guards at Abu Ghraib. This comparison is highly inflammatory and will damage your main argument and cause people to ignore you or simply react angrily rather than thoughtfully.

I understand your anger, but I don't agree with the nature or style of your response -- your blog comments. Unfortunately, your site will only be taken seriously if you try to calmly present reasonable arguments, and even then only decent, mature people will listen. The people who should be encouraged to improve their behaviour (those taking the photos and those posting them online) will probably ignore you. I feel that it would be better to deal with the problem more logically.

If you believe that the photographs on the site are against Korean law, then you should report it to the appropriate department of the police. If you want to persuade the creators of the blog, and the people taking and sending in photos, to stop (or change) then you should contact them directly (and calmly, as I said). I know you have contacted other respectable foreign bloggers in Korea, or commented on their sites, but remember that even these people will feel uneasy about agreeing with you if they think your reaction is too emotional (full of anger and derogatory language) and your arguments are too extreme (comparing Abu Ghraib with Blackout Korea without giving a good reason, or logical argument).

It is very unfortunate that people on the internet will say things (and show things, post pictures) that they wouldn't say or do in public. Even more unfortunate, is that some people actually would, and don't care at all about being rude to someone while looking them in the eye. There are some people who don't know that what they are doing is wrong, but some that will never change, no matter how well (logically and fairly ) we argue with them.

A minority of people cause the majority of problems. What we can do, is to try to convince the majority of reasonable people (who have temporarily lost their sense of common decency and contribute offensive photos to Blackout Korea) to see that their behaviour is not acceptable.


Here are my arguments against Blackout Korea:

1. Taking photos of people and publishing them without their permission may be a crime in Korea. Please at least make sure to conceal the identities of these people (if you're going to post them online).

2. Unwanted touching is a form of assault and, therefore, also a crime. Please do not touch people without their permission.

3. Posing with and ridiculing people in unflattering states is immature, insensitive, and offensive. Please respect other people, even if it seems amusing to you at the time. Stop and think about how you would feel if it happened to you. If you wouldn't be offended, keep in mind that not everyone is like you -- just because you think it's OK, doesn't mean it is for someone else. Hold on to your empathy -- these are people with feelings.

4. Blackout Korea is promoting, and normalising bad behaviour. Don't encourage this. Make it clear what is over the line. (In my view, showing the faces of, posing with, and touching unconscious people is over the line -- do not allow this on the site.) If someone were to take it too far and do something for the site that constitutes a (more) serious crime, then Blackout Korea will share some of the responsibility, if not the consequences.


Arguments against your site, English Teachers Out:

1. The angry tone is not helping. Focus on the behaviour, not the people. If you say someone is 'bad' (or an idiot) there is only one natural response -- they will become defensive and respond to you in the same (or worse) way. If you criticise behaviour, people have the option to change it.

2. Any time you compare someone to a criminal or war criminal, you need to be very careful. The comparison itself is not part of a valid argument unless the crimes are comparable. Comparing the processes involved, and making clear that they are different situations, is acceptable if done in a reasonable way. A direct comparison showing the worst of the Abu Ghraib photos to Blackout Korea's photos is not a valid argument -- it's an appeal to emotion.

3. Labelling all (or not differentiating between) people of a group as evil is also going to derail your argument and send into a free-fall of abuse and insult. Please make it clear that (as you don't know how many foreigners agree or disagree that Blackout Korea is awful) not all foreigners or foreign teachers are evil idiots.

4. Appealing to emotion will simply create a loud screaming match where no one is heard and nothing is said. Some people enjoy this -- don't encourage them. The people who enjoy arguing in this way are probably not the ones you can persuade or reason with.

5. Blackout Korea has a right to exist as long as they conceal the identities of the unconscious people in the pictures, and don't publish any that involve touching (assault). The posing, while it is distasteful and should be discouraged, is something that is not illegal, so should be changed through polite, reasoned arguments.

I am not saying you are wrong it what you're doing, but I am saying that your approach will be more effective if you take my advice. I am not saying you should stop criticising the bad behaviour you have seen promoted on Blackout Korea -- you have the right to do so. But if you continue, you can expect to face awful and offensive arguments from people who disagree with you -- these are from the few people who will never admit fault or change their behaviour. The more reasonable people will think carefully about their comments, but I think many of them already agree that Blackout Korea is offensive.

writer : Schplook   

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Bintz agrees all of Schplook's arguments against this blog.  I've learned much.
Just one thing I couldn't wipe out in my minds.. "they are terrorists in Korea."  :'(

Public Enemy - Who becomes a coordinate fired by angry netizens

The rule is simple. When a man did a thing to the others, the thing NEVER be one of these,
① A thing could not be done if the man regarded himself as a human being.
② A thing could not be done if the man regarded the others as human beings.

If you did, then you would become a public enemy on Korean Internet.

Now there are a lot of anonymous comments in the Evil Blog. Why anonymous? Do you think the angry netizens are passive and afraid of being exposed? No! Almost all Korean people don't have Google accounts :P We don't use Google.

If the King idiot doesn't shut down his Evil Blog then all idiots appeared on the blog will see their private lives LIVELY on Internet finally. I will share them on US server (← introspection after 17 hours : This is also a devil's work.  We have not to do that.  Any kind of violence cannot be justified by any excuse or any pretext.)

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추가 내용(16시간 후) : 블랙아웃코리아는 그들이 내세우는 명분이 무엇이건 한국에서 심각한 범죄를 저질렀습니다. 저는 그들의 행동에서 악마의 모습을 보았습니다. 제 의견은 확고합니다. 우리나라는 음주문화를 개선할 필요가 있으며 길에서 잠든 사람들을 모종의 보호시설로 옮기는 제도가 도입되어야 합니다. 아울러 저항할 힘이 없는(그리고 도움이 필요한) 사람들을 '즐거운 사진'을 위한 기념품 다루듯 한 테러리스트들은, 모두 찾아내어 국외로 추방해야 합니다. 하지만 그렇다고 국내 거주하는 모든 외국인이 비난을 받는 것은 옳지 못합니다. 실제로 이번 사건과 관련하여, 여러 외국인 블로그에서 그들을 두둔하는 의견에 쓴소리로 대응해주신 분들은 대부분 국내에서 활동하는 영어선생님들이었습니다. 그런 영어선생님들이 국내에 많아야 다시는 이런 테러가 발생하지 않는다고 생각합니다.

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Additional notes(written after 17 hours) : "I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eliezer Wiesel

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제목 : 공공의 적 - 누가 성난 네티즌에게 공격당하는 좌표가 되는가

규칙은 단순하다. 누군가 다른 이들에게 어떤 일을 행했을 때, 그것은 결코 아래 것들이면 안된다,
① 자신을 사람으로 여긴다면 도저히 할 수 없는 일.
② 다른 이들을 사람으로 여긴다면 도저히 할 수 없는 일.

만약 당신이 그런 일을 행한다면 당신은 한국 인터넷에서 공공의 적이 된다.

지금 그 사악한 블로그에는 수많은 익명의 댓글들이 있다. 왜 익명인가? 당신은 그 성난 네티즌들이 소극적이며 드러나기를 두려워한다고 생각하는가? 아니다! 거의 모든 한국인은 구글 계정을 가지고 있지 않다ㅋㅋ 우리는 구글을 사용하지 않는다.

만약 그 사악한 블로그가 폐쇄되지 않는다면, 결국 그 블로그에 얼굴이 오른 모든 머저리들은 그들의 사생활을 인터넷에서 생중계로 감상하게 될 것이다.   내가 그것들을 미국 서버에서 공유해주마  (← 17시간 후 반성 : 이것 또한 악마가 할법한 일이다.  우리는 그렇게 하면 안된다.  모든 폭력은 그 어떤 이유와 명분으로도 정당화 될 수 없다.)

MOST Serious MISTAKE of idiots - 머저리들 최악의 실수

One mistake only proves they are idiots : Even though Bodies are exposed in Korea, Crime Evidences are safely(?) stored in US server.

Let's approach their moral hazard with a viewpoint of economy. President Obama gives unstinted praise to Korean Education Systems. Recently he EVEN praised(WSJ article, Jan 25th 2011), "In South Korea, teachers are known as 'nation builders'. Here in America, it’s time we treated the people who educate our children with the same level of respect." Every Korean could understand why I put the word 'EVEN'. I described in my Korean blog post, "Obama should kick off a staff who advised a lie about 'Education in Korea'(about a position as a teacher)."  Though, of course, still better than the other developed countries on planet earth.

Anyway US President praises Korean Education Systems obviously OFTEN. The reason could label idiots' moral hazard as their most serious mistake in their lives : Korean people is the best CUSTOMER in US Education Market. Korea sends a lot of students to US to buy US Education and on the other hand, takes a lot of teachers from US to buy US Education.

This is why I could forecast the DISASTER TO IDIOTS before. The day is coming..


이런 실수는 고작 그들이 머저리라는 사실을 증명할 뿐이지 : 비록 몸뚱아리는 한국에 머무르고 있지만, 범죄 증거들은 안전하게(?) 미국 서버에 보관하고 있다.

그들의 도덕불감증을 경제적 관점에서 바라보기로 하자. 오바마 대통령은 한국의 교육 시스템에 대해 칭찬을 아끼지 않는다. 심지어 최근에는 이런 칭찬을 했다, "한국에서는 선생님들이 '국가의 건설자'로 인식되고 있다. 이제 여기 미국에서도 우리 아이들 교육을 책임지는 분들을 동일한 수준의 존경심으로 대해야 할 때이다." 한국인이라면 내가 왜 '심지어'라는 단어를 사용했는지 이해할 수 있을 것이다. 나는 내 한글 블로그에 이렇게 적었다, "오바마는 한국에 대해 거짓 정보를 제공하는 주변인을 정리할 필요가 있다."  물론, 지구상의 다른 발전된 국가들보다는 여전히 상황이 좋지만..

어쨌거나 미국 대통령은 틈만 나면 한국의 교육시스템을 칭찬한다. 그 이유가 '머저리들의 도덕불감증'을 '그들 생애 최악의 실수'로 바꿔버릴 수 있다 : 한국인은 미국 교육시장에서 최고의 고객이다. 한국은 미국 교육을 구입하기 위해 많은 학생들을 보내고, 한편으로 미국 교육을 구입하기 위해 많은 선생님들을 받아들인다.

이것이 바로 내가 '머저리들에게 떨어질 재앙'을 예견한 이유다. 그 날이 다가온다..


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Bonus : This(↓) is why I don't hesitate to say, "idiots are mad!" "idiots are devils!" "idiots are criminals!" ※ in this blog, every idiot indicates the idiot of Evil Blog(Black Out Korea).

(여친이 문을 안 열어줘서 복도에 잠든 남자를 발견했을 때, 그들의 창조적(?) 행동)

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Additional notes : 'Who teaches English in Korea' Blog (written after 21 hours in response to the latest 'introduction of the Evil Blog' written by King idiot Who teaches English in Korea.)

I’m a design engineer who designs ‘mechanical logics’ in machines. Usually don’t like to get involved in social problems in which everyone easily has a conviction until his generates another (or more) big problem. As you know, this counter-blog also includes a possibility to label 'Every English Teacher in Korea' as 'idiots having evil minds'. I feel responsible to prevent that.

Here is my story about 'Who teaches English in Korea' Blog.

Over 1 month ago(maybe within 2 months), one of my European friends introduced the Evil Blog to me and advised, "Show them what Korean people feel from their moral hazard." He was very angry although he is not a Korean! And this interview article was given to me → http://bit.ly/h0nyH6 (Aug. 30, 2010, matadornetwork) Sooner, I visited Evil Blog and left a comment. And then we (he and I) believed that they would shut down the Evil Blog. There was no reason to remember them.

~

When I opened this WhoTeachesEnglish blog, I believed that if I showed a strong and (seemingly) continuous resistance to their moral hazard then they would shut down the Evil Blog.

After this counter-blog opening, the first thing I prepared was to leave an incoming-link on the Evil Blog. I put it as a comment there. And the second thing was to write a Korean article in my Korean Blog. So there were two routines for visitors at the opening :
① Evil Blog → WhoTeachesEnglish (as a comment)
② my Korean Blog → WhoTeachesEnglish (as a post written in Korean)

Bintz(빈츠) is not an Anonymous on Internet. Everyone can easily gather information about me, especially when he can read Korean words. I think about 70% of my life has been recorded in Korean. But I didn't feel necessary to prepare an outgoing-link into my Korean Blog here because I would remain as just one Korean people to them(idiots). But I had to put the out-going link into my Korean Blog to show my respects to a visitor who left the first reasonable and considerable comment here(after about 6 hours from opening). Now I put the outgoing-link kindly continuously.

I hope idiots to realize two facts!
① Korean people can't reach this WhoTeachesEnglish Blog by searching keywords. I feel you are afraid of the other English Teachers & not-idiot friends in Korea.
② When a well-maid movie is introduced in Korea, it is usually expected that 25% of people will see the movie. 10,000,000 PEOPLE for just ONE movie! Check the visitor counter here. Idiots don't need to be afraid of Korean people now(mostly don't know about you idiots till now at least).. Please be afraid of your pure good inner minds what you lost recently.

Their terrible CRIME is a disgrace of Korea. National disgrace indeed!

Hey, idiots!  Here check the newest mission(↓) from King idiot!

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Additional notes(written after 23 hours) : There were several visitors who tried to legitimize the moral hazard of the Evil Blog. I thought they were definitely wrong but usually didn't blame on them because I could feel they tried to protect someone appeared on idiot photos. Yes, I would do too if I had a friend in them.

Probably many of idiots (at least the King idiot) don't understand why their moral hazard could be compared with Abu Ghraib. This article(Idiots teach how to be creative in Korea) in this blog was all what I could explain with my own knowledge and morality.

But fortunately I could find out a series of knowledge comments in the other's blog yesterday. Idiots, check it out together! (but so sorry to the commenter, for capturing without permission)

※ Sorry, I couldn't attach a link to the knowledge comments. The blog's owner was the most active visitor here who tried to legitimize idiot's moral hazard. But now probably he felt he was wrong.. he is shouting "Both of Evil Blog and WhoTeachesEnglish Blog are wrong!" As I told before I can understand why he has to do so. He is not a bad guy.

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Additional notes(Mar. 9th 16:30 GMT+9) : "First, we also have to stop making excuses for bad teachers." Obama said during a classroom visit at Tech Boston Academy in Massachusetts' capital city on Mar. 8th 2011. / RTTNews

Many of faces appeared on the Evil Blog are not verified yet

During the past one week, finding a learning-criminal was slightly easier than finding a teaching-criminal.

Yes, correct!

Teaching-criminal means an idiot who teaches English in the daytime and wanders around to find a powerless people as a plaything at night.  An idiot of the evil blog can be told as CRIMINAL by this logic  →  Facts : ①Drunken passed out people on roads is Not Guilty in Korea ②Ridiculing or taking pictures of him is definitely Guilty in all developed countries including Korea ③Uploading and sharing the idiot photos was unimaginable thing to right people over the world UNTIL the appearance of Evil Blog.  Judgement : All foreign idiots of the evil blog are guilty in Korea.  Criminals have been keeping CRIME EVIDENCE safe in public, in mistake for SAFE ONLINE DATA far from the scene of crime..  LOL

Many of Korean people were confused when major newspapers described, "It's our disgrace."  I agree that 'drunken passed out people on streets' is our social problem to be fixed.  But the disgrace is from "Why did we let them(idiots) free to make crimes on streets for a long time?"  Police had to catch them with evidences in their camera on streets.  Newspapers are not foolish to skip this point but they all did.  Why?

School starts next week ~  Then it is expected to verify the rest of criminals at once with an impact.  How wise the newspapers are!

( but who know? Korean newspapers became really mild about foreign criminals? )